Is a coup attempt against Mexico's left-wing President AMLO next?
30:58
Transcript
00:00
[Music]
00:02
the Mexican foreign policy has changed a
00:06
lot during the last a month and a half
00:08
during this time we saw the the
00:11
president of Cuba ABS canal visited
00:14
congressman Lopez Obrador in the
00:17
statements of the representative of
00:19
Mexico the OAS are real different
00:23
they're against the general secretary
00:26
that we were talking about Almagro we've
00:30
seen this visit of the elected president
00:33
of Argentina and Argentina Alberto
00:36
Fernandez so you know this is tragedy
00:39
we've seen that over and over again is
00:42
the same script of the State Department
00:44
to create this idea that it's a national
00:48
trade to the national security it's a
00:50
threat for international security in the
00:53
US so I'm really worried that something
00:55
can happen for next month and it wasn't
00:58
coincidence that I'm not tweeted a week
01:02
ago that it's not possible a coup in
01:06
Mexico like given this idea that he's
01:10
also worried as a president didn't start
01:13
talking about a possibility of a coup in
01:15
Mexico just because do you have time to
01:18
tweet something I'll never apologize for
01:20
the United States of America ever I
01:23
don't care what the facts are why are we
01:27
gonna sit down and talk to these
01:28
quote-unquote moderate rebels who are
01:30
the truly moderate rebels the search for
01:32
the moderate rebel do these moderate
01:34
rebels exist
01:37
[Music]
01:43
moderate rebels this is moderate rebels
01:47
I'm Ben Norton here with max Blumenthal
01:49
and this is part two of our interview
01:51
with the Mexican journalist Elena Duarte
01:55
and the first part we were talking about
01:57
the massive protest movement going on in
02:00
she lay where there is a billionaire
02:03
oligarch president sebastián piñera who
02:06
is a billionaire trumpian kind of figure
02:10
as we talked about in the first part
02:12
this is a guy who has repeatedly
02:13
defended the fascist dictator Pinochet
02:16
who gave a speech in 1998 opposing the
02:22
extradition of Pinochet and arrest of
02:25
Pinochet
02:25
and saying feint infamously he's saying
02:29
that that Pinochet and Pinochet's family
02:32
deserve all of our solidarity so you
02:35
should go to part one and you can follow
02:38
what's been going on in she'll a it's a
02:40
very important discussion there this is
02:42
a discussion of Latin America more as a
02:45
whole as a region and in this part we're
02:48
going to talk about the pink tide this
02:50
is the term used to refer to the
02:53
progressive wave of governments that
02:55
were elected in in the late 90s and
02:58
early 2000s of course
03:00
Lugo Chavez in Venezuela Lula da Silva
03:02
and in Brazil the Kirchner is in
03:05
Argentina and we're gonna talk about how
03:09
some of these governments were
03:11
overturned through coos parliamentary
03:13
coos elections and it looked like the
03:18
left was on the ropes now there was
03:20
actually a kind of new hope in the
03:23
region where Mexico had the historic
03:26
election of Andres Manuel Lopez
03:27
autoloader which was the he is the first
03:30
left-wing president in Mexico in 50
03:33
years we're gonna talk about how he and
03:36
other leaders like Rafael Correa the
03:38
former left-wing president of Ecuador
03:40
have been trying to reintegrate Latin
03:43
America and fight for a new independent
03:45
foreign policy independent of US
03:48
imperialism independent of Washington's
03:50
hegemony and we're going to talk about
03:52
how the massive up rise
03:54
against the neoliberal policies being
03:57
implemented in places like Chile against
04:00
the austerity and the IMF loan in
04:03
Ecuador how all of these are linked to
04:06
the attempt to restore you know
04:09
independence and sovereignty to Latin
04:12
America so here is part two of our
04:14
discussion with Elina Duarte max
04:17
mentioned this insane tweet I just got
04:20
up from Michael Morell who's the former
04:22
acting CIA director is that anyone who
04:25
thinks the protests in Chile are driven
04:27
by poverty and inequality as some would
04:29
have us believe need to watch this video
04:32
this is about Cuban Venezuelan and
04:35
Russian interference
04:37
this shows the vulnerability of even a
04:39
well-functioning democracy and economy
04:41
to hybrid warfare now what's crazy about
04:44
this not only is this just insane
04:46
propaganda what we were talking about
04:48
but everyone knows the history of CIA
04:52
meddling in and destroying the the
04:56
actual democracy that she lay had I mean
04:59
it's just think about it what kind of
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sociopath you'd have to be to be the
05:02
leader of the CIA and then talk about
05:04
talk about the threat to a
05:07
well-functioning democracy in the
05:08
country of Chile were you overthrew the
05:11
elected president everyone knows that I
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mean it's the most famous CIA CIA
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you know incident in history and then
05:19
even aside from that another thing I
05:21
pointed out on Twitter here is that so
05:24
we now know this is a literal CIA
05:26
talking point you know Michael Morell is
05:28
a guy who called for killing Russians
05:31
and Iranians in Syria to quote make them
05:34
pay a price and to quote scare Assad so
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this is a guy who he knew he admitted in
05:39
an interview that al-qaeda dominated the
05:42
so-called rebels and he's still called
05:44
for the u.s. to kill Russians and
05:46
Iranians in Syria and now he's spreading
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this prepend what you're saying is then
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what you're saying is that he was the
05:52
CIA director well no well exactly
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exactly
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no but no but but the the other point I
05:59
was going to make is that
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so this CIA director is spreading this
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propaganda and who else is saying
06:04
exactly the same thing the OAS Luis
06:07
Almagro
06:08
the chair the head of the Organization
06:11
of American States he also accused the
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protests of being orchestrated by Maduro
06:17
and by cuba so we have another example
06:20
of how these so-called international
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organizations like the OAS which act as
06:25
vehicles for us power in the region are
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echoing narratives that are identical to
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the narratives being spread by CIA
06:33
directors yeah but I mean at this point
06:36
who trusts Almagro you know it's it's
06:40
another bite bad joke of international
06:42
politics he is a real traitor as Lenin
06:46
Moreno he was a counselor with Pepe
06:49
Mujica the president of Hawaii and at
06:53
this point he's not like this pokeman of
06:56
the State Department every in every
06:58
single place he goes he went to the
07:01
border between Venezuela and Colombia
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and he was talking about human rights
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and that he was really really worried
07:08
about what about the situation in
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Venezuela that whatever and even for
07:14
example this cultural idea or these
07:17
narratives about what a leadership is
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what a human rights are for example
07:22
where all of those artists calling for a
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concert in it's a way s OS Chile like
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they D be in Venezuela so now who can
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trust someone like a matter at this
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point or and you know for example it's
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it's it's it's important to say that
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here in Chile they I think the people
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are really aware of who is the CIA so
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that's why it's really important for
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them to support the young people in the
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streets because that sentiment of what
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happened in 1970 they another September
07:55
11 in Latin America the coup against
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agenda it's it's in all of it I've been
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listening to the people in the streets
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talking about again day so it's amazing
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how this sentiment is persist and in
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this society what they don't really want
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is to have this participation of someone
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like admire or the CIA or it is organic
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that claims if we're human rights and
08:25
democracy when we see the people who are
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talking about democracy like Almagro or
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for example anymore II know Sebastian
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Pinera who can only have this democracy
08:37
with bullets tear gas and water cannons
08:41
it's just in since like who who are
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trusting them at this point yeah I mean
08:49
Amaro really has to get reelected at the
08:52
OAS and he's not accountable to anyone
08:55
but these right-wing countries that are
08:58
gonna help put him over the top to the
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extent that their governments can hold
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on and then after that he'll probably go
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become a very rich man
09:06
we actually saw him at the American
09:09
Jewish Committee which is a right-wing
09:11
pro-israel group with that's very very
09:15
well funded blame claim that Hezbollah
09:19
operatives were active in Venezuela I
09:22
mean he has taken this institution that
09:25
was already a joke and was already a
09:28
u.s. cat's paw in the region and just
09:31
reduced its credibility to nothing he's
09:34
just carpet-bomb the credibility of the
09:36
OAS and what he's doing I think and it's
09:41
understood to Venezuela is really a more
09:44
sophisticated version of Operation
09:46
Condor which was part you know and
09:49
parcel of the coup and Chile but also
09:50
destroying the left across the continent
09:54
so now we're sort of seeing the left
09:57
come back in in some places you see the
10:01
historical memory of Chile being
10:03
observed through the music of Victor
10:05
Jara who is murdered along with so many
10:09
other supporters of Ind by Pinochet but
10:14
I want to ask you you know because we
10:17
only have a little bit of time left
10:19
alena about Mexico where you have a
10:22
government that's sort of functioning
10:24
regionally as a kind of negotiator
10:27
between the US and so many of these
10:32
other countries that are either you know
10:36
independent still like Venezuela or what
10:39
you're experiencing these tumultuous
10:42
protests there's been I've been hearing
10:46
you know from Mexican friends who are on
10:48
the left that I'm low has been something
10:51
of a disappointment and others you know
10:54
understand that he's in a difficult
10:56
predicament because Mexico is right next
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to the US and I'm also seeing an attack
11:01
building on Amla within Washington to
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paint Mexico as a kind of failed state
11:06
in order to get the u.s. back in you
11:09
were actually pointing to a New York
11:11
Times article on your Twitter account
11:13
which called for a counterinsurgency
11:14
campaign in Mexico because it was a
11:17
failed state so you know what's
11:19
happening in you know in your home
11:22
country how do you see on lo about a
11:25
year into his tenure and what effect is
11:30
the attack in Washington having well
11:33
actually it's it's I think the the role
11:37
of Mexico in the region is gonna be a
11:38
key for for next year's and Andres
11:42
Manuel Lopez Obrador damn low he's not a
11:44
social he he doesn't consider himself as
11:48
a socialist he he is always contrary
11:52
democracy everywhere but he changed I
11:54
loved a lot of the things in the region
11:57
for example were talking about the OAS
11:59
the things here at the Lima group he the
12:02
the position of Mexico is now absolutely
12:05
different actually what we were saying
12:07
the representative of Mexico at the OAS
12:11
said it with the same words he called
12:14
again he said that almagro he asked to a
12:17
Margaret to stop being a spoke spoke man
12:20
of like another cause he she was really
12:26
I mean I I covered the OAS for the last
12:30
two years I never I heard something like
12:33
that so Mexico have been changing a lot
12:37
of things in the region and now with the
12:39
relationship with the US well it's
12:42
really complicated we cannot be the anti
12:44
capitalist government that maybe we
12:48
would
12:49
like to see we have a lot of dependency
12:53
with with the US and we are the
12:56
neighbors of the pile so now I think and
12:59
I'm really worried too because I can see
13:02
that a new a new narrative and strategy
13:07
from the US is beginning as we saw with
13:10
Nicaragua or Venezuela and the problem
13:13
is that we are neighbors
13:14
so now Fox News and the New York Times
13:19
are saying things like we are a failure
13:26
that our state is you know like the same
13:31
they said about Venezuela months ago and
13:33
they are saying exactly the same now of
13:36
this socialist president of Mexico that
13:39
that's what Fox News said and it's
13:42
important to listen to them they are the
13:44
real spoke spoken enough of Trump so I
13:49
see that even when a blow has been
13:53
trying to be in moderate friend with
13:58
Trump's administration he conceded he a
14:02
lot of in terms of the migration policy
14:06
even when we don't say that we are the
14:09
third country the third state country my
14:14
like we are in fact in in those terms so
14:19
even though even with all of that things
14:24
Trump's administration are still pushing
14:27
the idea that now for example days ago
14:31
he said that Mexico's government she'd
14:34
accept the help of the US to fight
14:39
against the narcos to the drug cartels
14:42
to fire them
14:44
and now the Fox News are saying that
14:47
yeah we help Colombia while we could
14:50
couldn't help make successful inclusion
14:55
of Colombia
14:56
so much really the most violent country
14:58
in the region and they say it and they
15:01
say in those terms like we help Colombia
15:04
so we can help anyone so even they say
15:07
like the Mexican population should be
15:10
supporting the Trump's ideas so you know
15:14
this is tragedy
15:15
we've seen that over and over again is
15:18
the same script of the State Department
15:20
to create this idea that it's a national
15:24
threat to the national security it's a
15:26
threat for international security in the
15:29
u.s. so I'm really worried that
15:31
something can happen for next month and
15:33
it wasn't coincidence that I'm not
15:36
tweeted a week ago that it's not
15:40
possible a coup in Mexico like given
15:44
this idea that he's also worried as a
15:47
president didn't start talking about a
15:49
possibility of a coup in Mexico just
15:52
because you have time to treat something
15:54
so maybe he knows that things are
15:58
changing and I think a point of no
16:01
return was these operative against the
16:05
El Chapo's son I don't know if you saw
16:08
that they obtained the military Mexican
16:11
military detained the son of a chopper
16:14
and Emilio wasn't aware about that and I
16:19
in my perception that that kind of
16:23
operatives or it specifically that one
16:26
was created it was a trap of the DEA in
16:35
Mexico so it something else is talking
16:39
at this point and also you know if you
16:41
look at the history the DA's history in
16:44
the region along with Delta Force for
16:47
example the you know operation against
16:50
Pablo Escobar in Colombia it helped turn
16:54
Colombia into the failed state and
16:56
create space for Plan Colombia because
16:59
once Escobar was eliminated there was
17:01
this massive fight for power and the
17:04
u.s. was backing los pepes
17:06
as this kind of forced to kill off his
17:08
men so they basically create
17:11
just this this massive war in midian
17:15
that had previously kind of been under
17:18
the control of one drug lord that's the
17:21
kind of scenario you can see after the
17:23
capture of el chapo taking place in
17:27
Mexico that the US would sort of benefit
17:29
from yeah actually the last time you
17:32
received help from the u.s. to fight the
17:36
drug cartels we had for the last twelve
17:39
years more than 200,000 people
17:42
disappeared and more than 130,000 people
17:46
killed
17:47
that was our war on drugs from 2006 in
17:54
2018 for the last elections and and
17:57
people are still being more there every
18:00
single day in Mexico because of that war
18:02
and mass media didn't say anything for
18:05
more than 12 years where this this world
18:08
started with Felipe Calderon and things
18:12
with AMLO has changed just a little
18:15
because he I mean I understand things
18:20
have to have to change but he cannot do
18:23
anything well he can do a lot but he
18:26
cannot change the situation in Mexico in
18:29
just one year and now we have he has the
18:33
70% of approval he is trying to push a
18:37
lot of initiatives a lot of proposals of
18:40
law he is trying to change the system as
18:44
much as he can I think but it won't be
18:47
enough I'm sure yeah let's talk about
18:50
I'm low in Mexico's foreign policy and
18:54
the kind of regional attempt of
18:56
reintegration because today is November
19:00
7th the 7th of November and in the past
19:03
few days there have been some
19:04
interesting developments that involve
19:07
not only Chile and Mexico but also
19:10
Ecuador and Argentina so you know in
19:13
Argentina there was a recent election
19:16
and the left one power so the the
19:19
oligarch neoliberal Mauricio Macri is
19:23
now
19:24
going to accept he's gonna give power
19:26
over to the left again and the president
19:31
who won at about the Fernandez just
19:33
actually visited Mexico and it was
19:35
actually his his first foreign trip was
19:38
to Mexico and what's interesting is that
19:41
so CNN did a report on this and CNN
19:44
asked they said a CNN CNN espanol asked
19:48
they said is Mexico the new epicenter of
19:51
the left in Latin America and what's
19:55
interesting is while this is also
19:56
happening you also had a trip of Arafah
20:00
Correa who is the former leftist
20:03
president of Ecuador and he he had a
20:06
talk he met with Alberto Fernandez of
20:09
Argentina and Correa also commented on
20:14
the meeting between Hernandez and amlo
20:17
the president the new president leftist
20:19
president of Mexico and he said we're
20:22
going to continue building Latin
20:24
American unity and then also quoted Iowa
20:28
in his in his interview in Mexico he did
20:31
an interview with Millennials which is a
20:33
big media outlet and he said before
20:35
Lopez Obrador in Mexico before amla
20:38
Mexico only looked to the north
20:41
Mexico considered itself part of North
20:43
America and saw itself as more closely
20:46
allied with the US than with the rest of
20:49
Latin America now quadriyyah argues that
20:52
now with um lo mexico is looking back to
20:55
the south again and at least making
20:58
attempts you know you can criticize
21:00
maybe that they're not as successful as
21:02
they could be but is at least making
21:04
attempts to reintegrate with the region
21:07
and no longer just seeing itself as the
21:09
kind of junior partner of the u.s. so
21:12
I'm wondering what you think about that
21:13
and about this kind of his historic
21:16
meetings that the fact that the new
21:19
left-wing President of Argentina his
21:22
first trip was to Mexico well I must say
21:25
that in the last month and a half I've
21:29
seen complete they're different
21:33
a real different foreign policy strategy
21:37
the Mexican foreign policy has changed a
21:40
lot during the last a month and a half
21:42
during this time we saw the the
21:46
president of Cuba ABS canal visited
21:49
congressman Lopez Obrador the statements
21:53
of the representative of Mexico the OAS
21:56
are real different they're against the
22:00
general secretary that we were talking
22:02
about almagro we've seen this visit of
22:06
the elected president of Argentina and
22:09
Argentina Alberto Fernandez the position
22:13
of Mexico in the group of lime even
22:18
something that wasn't mentioned in the
22:22
media was that in the Twitter account of
22:26
an lo he said that in Bolivia in the
22:30
middle of all of this strategy of a coup
22:33
against Evo Morales he said that the
22:36
elections in Bolivia were democratic so
22:40
it's it's amazing and I think it is
22:43
related to his fear of a coup that he
22:48
needs to change as much as possible
22:51
immediately so it's changing and it's
22:54
changing for a good in the region but
22:56
that's why I'm really worried because
23:00
the US won't allow I'm allowed to do
23:03
whatever he wants
23:04
right so yeah definitely it's a change
23:06
and in the middle of these cows and
23:10
people questioning the no liberal modo
23:14
in the region in the whole world in
23:17
Ecuador in Chile he's talking about
23:20
neoliberalism and during these press
23:23
conferences in the morning that he asked
23:25
every single day he was saying that the
23:29
liberal system is failed failed model
23:32
that we can trust in those kind of
23:35
policies and it's something that he I
23:38
don't really I I would never thought
23:41
that he could say something like these
23:43
as I said he's not anti-capitalist he's
23:46
not socialist but he is understanding
23:49
the role of Mexico in the region
23:51
and it is change a lot during the last
23:54
month or two months and it's it's
23:57
amazing yeah I just got up this tweet
23:58
you mentioned this I'm glad you
24:00
mentioned this because I was tweeting
24:01
about it and it got very little
24:02
attention but I agree that this is very
24:04
important this is undeniable pose over
24:06
order the New Mexican president and he
24:09
tweeted I'll translated here I
24:11
congratulated on the phone the new
24:14
president-elect Alberto Fernandez in
24:16
Argentina and also Ava Morales the
24:19
president of Bolivia who won their free
24:21
election the free and democratic
24:23
elections in their countries on the knee
24:26
posted a photo meeting and what's
24:29
interesting is that this is also at a
24:30
time of course when the US and the OAS
24:32
are leading this kind of coup attempt
24:35
against Ava Morales in Bolivia and there
24:39
have been massive protests in support of
24:42
AVO and what's also interesting in
24:44
response to this is if you look on if
24:46
you look at Twitter and you look at like
24:49
the people who really support I'm low
24:51
and what would they call like the the
24:53
red the Imanol red like the network of
24:56
amla supporters there's a popular I'm
24:59
low guy Michael OVA though who's like an
25:03
architect and a big Amla guy he always
25:04
you know people say I'm lovers they
25:07
always have this thing like this is and
25:08
if you look at their rhetoric it's
25:10
really interesting he's saying my
25:12
absolute support to my president goodbye
25:16
to neoliberalism another country in
25:19
Latin America is turning to the left
25:22
goodbye to the right wing that sells its
25:25
homeland welcomed the left so if you
25:29
even if you look at his supporters
25:30
online there's definitely this rhetoric
25:32
and of course when I'm low you know his
25:34
domestic policy it's more complicated to
25:36
talk about of course the Mexican
25:39
government is the federal government is
25:41
a very weak state compared to other
25:43
states in the region for a variety of
25:45
historical regions reasons but I think
25:47
this actually he kind of reminds me in
25:49
some ways of Lula da Silva and Brazil
25:51
where I'm Lula was more explicitly kind
25:54
of socialist oriented but in the sense
25:57
that Lula was not his economic policy
26:00
was not very left-wing
26:02
he did fight poverty but he wasn't like
26:05
no threatening to take away the wealth
26:08
of rich people but he was explicitly
26:10
anti neoliberal in his rhetoric and he
26:13
was focused on regional integration so
26:15
I'm wondering maybe if you think that
26:17
you know I'm low at his inauguration he
26:19
famously declared that the night of
26:21
neoliberalism has ended and there's a
26:24
new dawn in Mexico so I'm wondering
26:25
maybe if you think he's definitely not
26:28
someone like Chavez who's talking about
26:30
socialism in the 21st century but do you
26:32
think that that I'm low can be someone
26:34
more like Lula who is going to be
26:36
focused on regional integration and and
26:39
you know not a socialist model but a
26:42
more social democratic model of course
26:44
if if he's not coud out although another
26:48
point to make really quickly is that it
26:49
was actually the 2002 coup against
26:52
Chavez that turned him to the left and
26:54
made him a socialist so something else
26:56
to think about is if the US and revering
26:59
forces do try a coup against Lopez
27:02
Obrador it could be possible that that
27:04
could act if he survives the coup and he
27:06
has a lot of popular support that could
27:07
actually move him even further left yeah
27:10
actually I don't think the same but he's
27:12
more kind of a Lula than a Chavez but
27:15
actually also Chavez wasn't socialist
27:18
before 2002 it was the cool that made
27:21
Chavez a real socialist talking about ok
27:26
expectations about the the Morrisey
27:30
about you know Chavez changed a lot
27:33
after the coup so even embarrassment and
27:36
I think he has been changing a lot his
27:38
mind during the last year he's not the
27:40
same person with to the power last
27:42
December the 1st 2018 he has changed a
27:45
lot his mind and his policies or maybe
27:48
it was just a strategy taking the power
27:51
and then it started doing something like
27:53
this I'm really glad that something like
27:55
this is going on in Mexico and also
27:58
there is something I forgot to say and
28:00
it's the role of Mexico now with what's
28:03
going on in in Ecuador because and now
28:07
the mainly figures or mainly figures of
28:10
the charisma or of the government of
28:13
Rafael Correa in Ecuador now for example
28:16
the former Chancellor
28:18
Cuttino is exiled in Mexico also the one
28:22
who was the president of the National
28:24
Assembly Gabriela Guevara Neda both of
28:27
them could have run for presidency
28:29
instead of Lenin Moreno but according to
28:32
the polls the best option at that moment
28:35
at that point was Lena Moreno and
28:37
Gabriela Riva Dunedin now is inside the
28:40
embassy of Mexico asking for asylum with
28:44
another four congressmen in inside a
28:47
Mexican Embassy so Mexico is absolutely
28:50
defying the u.s. in putting foreign
28:53
policy especially in the terms of us
28:56
what I said Bolivia and Ecuador is
28:59
definitely for example now Rafael Correa
29:01
to say this it is in Mexico giving
29:04
speeches and having meetings with
29:07
Alberto Fernandez the president elect
29:10
the President of Argentina so definitely
29:13
in those terms accepted the visit of the
29:16
president of Cuba and talking about
29:19
democracy in Bolivia and accepting the
29:22
main leaders of charisma in Mexico as
29:25
excited it's it's just he's not talking
29:29
about and they throw in the capitalism
29:32
but he is doing these kind of things
29:35
that represent a clear that he is really
29:39
defying the u.s. in these terms all
29:43
right well we're gonna have to enter
29:44
conversation there thank you so much for
29:46
joining us we were speaking with Alina
29:48
Duarte who is an independent journalist
29:51
and is currently in she lay she used to
29:54
work with della sword also Alina is
29:57
crowdfunding to have people help support
30:00
her important on-the-ground
30:02
investigative journalism so we're gonna
30:04
put a link below this episode on YouTube
30:08
and also on different websites for
30:10
podcasts so go to the description and
30:12
you can find the link to her GoFundMe to
30:16
help support
30:16
Elena's on-the-ground reporting thanks
30:19
so much for joining us Lina and support
30:21
us support us at patreon.com slash
30:26
moderate raffia support all thank you
30:28
for having me
30:29
thanks a lot Alina
30:31
thank you okay
30:34
[Music]
30:55
Transcript
00:00
[Music]
00:02
the Mexican foreign policy has changed a
00:06
lot during the last a month and a half
00:08
during this time we saw the the
00:11
president of Cuba ABS canal visited
00:14
congressman Lopez Obrador in the
00:17
statements of the representative of
00:19
Mexico the OAS are real different
00:23
they're against the general secretary
00:26
that we were talking about Almagro we've
00:30
seen this visit of the elected president
00:33
of Argentina and Argentina Alberto
00:36
Fernandez so you know this is tragedy
00:39
we've seen that over and over again is
00:42
the same script of the State Department
00:44
to create this idea that it's a national
00:48
trade to the national security it's a
00:50
threat for international security in the
00:53
US so I'm really worried that something
00:55
can happen for next month and it wasn't
00:58
coincidence that I'm not tweeted a week
01:02
ago that it's not possible a coup in
01:06
Mexico like given this idea that he's
01:10
also worried as a president didn't start
01:13
talking about a possibility of a coup in
01:15
Mexico just because do you have time to
01:18
tweet something I'll never apologize for
01:20
the United States of America ever I
01:23
don't care what the facts are why are we
01:27
gonna sit down and talk to these
01:28
quote-unquote moderate rebels who are
01:30
the truly moderate rebels the search for
01:32
the moderate rebel do these moderate
01:34
rebels exist
01:37
[Music]
01:43
moderate rebels this is moderate rebels
01:47
I'm Ben Norton here with max Blumenthal
01:49
and this is part two of our interview
01:51
with the Mexican journalist Elena Duarte
01:55
and the first part we were talking about
01:57
the massive protest movement going on in
02:00
she lay where there is a billionaire
02:03
oligarch president sebastián piñera who
02:06
is a billionaire trumpian kind of figure
02:10
as we talked about in the first part
02:12
this is a guy who has repeatedly
02:13
defended the fascist dictator Pinochet
02:16
who gave a speech in 1998 opposing the
02:22
extradition of Pinochet and arrest of
02:25
Pinochet
02:25
and saying feint infamously he's saying
02:29
that that Pinochet and Pinochet's family
02:32
deserve all of our solidarity so you
02:35
should go to part one and you can follow
02:38
what's been going on in she'll a it's a
02:40
very important discussion there this is
02:42
a discussion of Latin America more as a
02:45
whole as a region and in this part we're
02:48
going to talk about the pink tide this
02:50
is the term used to refer to the
02:53
progressive wave of governments that
02:55
were elected in in the late 90s and
02:58
early 2000s of course
03:00
Lugo Chavez in Venezuela Lula da Silva
03:02
and in Brazil the Kirchner is in
03:05
Argentina and we're gonna talk about how
03:09
some of these governments were
03:11
overturned through coos parliamentary
03:13
coos elections and it looked like the
03:18
left was on the ropes now there was
03:20
actually a kind of new hope in the
03:23
region where Mexico had the historic
03:26
election of Andres Manuel Lopez
03:27
autoloader which was the he is the first
03:30
left-wing president in Mexico in 50
03:33
years we're gonna talk about how he and
03:36
other leaders like Rafael Correa the
03:38
former left-wing president of Ecuador
03:40
have been trying to reintegrate Latin
03:43
America and fight for a new independent
03:45
foreign policy independent of US
03:48
imperialism independent of Washington's
03:50
hegemony and we're going to talk about
03:52
how the massive up rise
03:54
against the neoliberal policies being
03:57
implemented in places like Chile against
04:00
the austerity and the IMF loan in
04:03
Ecuador how all of these are linked to
04:06
the attempt to restore you know
04:09
independence and sovereignty to Latin
04:12
America so here is part two of our
04:14
discussion with Elina Duarte max
04:17
mentioned this insane tweet I just got
04:20
up from Michael Morell who's the former
04:22
acting CIA director is that anyone who
04:25
thinks the protests in Chile are driven
04:27
by poverty and inequality as some would
04:29
have us believe need to watch this video
04:32
this is about Cuban Venezuelan and
04:35
Russian interference
04:37
this shows the vulnerability of even a
04:39
well-functioning democracy and economy
04:41
to hybrid warfare now what's crazy about
04:44
this not only is this just insane
04:46
propaganda what we were talking about
04:48
but everyone knows the history of CIA
04:52
meddling in and destroying the the
04:56
actual democracy that she lay had I mean
04:59
it's just think about it what kind of
05:00
sociopath you'd have to be to be the
05:02
leader of the CIA and then talk about
05:04
talk about the threat to a
05:07
well-functioning democracy in the
05:08
country of Chile were you overthrew the
05:11
elected president everyone knows that I
05:14
mean it's the most famous CIA CIA
05:17
you know incident in history and then
05:19
even aside from that another thing I
05:21
pointed out on Twitter here is that so
05:24
we now know this is a literal CIA
05:26
talking point you know Michael Morell is
05:28
a guy who called for killing Russians
05:31
and Iranians in Syria to quote make them
05:34
pay a price and to quote scare Assad so
05:37
this is a guy who he knew he admitted in
05:39
an interview that al-qaeda dominated the
05:42
so-called rebels and he's still called
05:44
for the u.s. to kill Russians and
05:46
Iranians in Syria and now he's spreading
05:49
this prepend what you're saying is then
05:51
what you're saying is that he was the
05:52
CIA director well no well exactly
05:54
exactly
05:55
no but no but but the the other point I
05:59
was going to make is that
06:00
so this CIA director is spreading this
06:03
propaganda and who else is saying
06:04
exactly the same thing the OAS Luis
06:07
Almagro
06:08
the chair the head of the Organization
06:11
of American States he also accused the
06:14
protests of being orchestrated by Maduro
06:17
and by cuba so we have another example
06:20
of how these so-called international
06:22
organizations like the OAS which act as
06:25
vehicles for us power in the region are
06:27
echoing narratives that are identical to
06:31
the narratives being spread by CIA
06:33
directors yeah but I mean at this point
06:36
who trusts Almagro you know it's it's
06:40
another bite bad joke of international
06:42
politics he is a real traitor as Lenin
06:46
Moreno he was a counselor with Pepe
06:49
Mujica the president of Hawaii and at
06:53
this point he's not like this pokeman of
06:56
the State Department every in every
06:58
single place he goes he went to the
07:01
border between Venezuela and Colombia
07:03
and he was talking about human rights
07:06
and that he was really really worried
07:08
about what about the situation in
07:10
Venezuela that whatever and even for
07:14
example this cultural idea or these
07:17
narratives about what a leadership is
07:19
what a human rights are for example
07:22
where all of those artists calling for a
07:25
concert in it's a way s OS Chile like
07:29
they D be in Venezuela so now who can
07:33
trust someone like a matter at this
07:35
point or and you know for example it's
07:37
it's it's it's important to say that
07:39
here in Chile they I think the people
07:42
are really aware of who is the CIA so
07:44
that's why it's really important for
07:46
them to support the young people in the
07:48
streets because that sentiment of what
07:52
happened in 1970 they another September
07:55
11 in Latin America the coup against
07:58
agenda it's it's in all of it I've been
08:02
listening to the people in the streets
08:03
talking about again day so it's amazing
08:06
how this sentiment is persist and in
08:10
this society what they don't really want
08:13
is to have this participation of someone
08:18
like admire or the CIA or it is organic
08:21
that claims if we're human rights and
08:25
democracy when we see the people who are
08:28
talking about democracy like Almagro or
08:30
for example anymore II know Sebastian
08:32
Pinera who can only have this democracy
08:37
with bullets tear gas and water cannons
08:41
it's just in since like who who are
08:46
trusting them at this point yeah I mean
08:49
Amaro really has to get reelected at the
08:52
OAS and he's not accountable to anyone
08:55
but these right-wing countries that are
08:58
gonna help put him over the top to the
09:00
extent that their governments can hold
09:02
on and then after that he'll probably go
09:05
become a very rich man
09:06
we actually saw him at the American
09:09
Jewish Committee which is a right-wing
09:11
pro-israel group with that's very very
09:15
well funded blame claim that Hezbollah
09:19
operatives were active in Venezuela I
09:22
mean he has taken this institution that
09:25
was already a joke and was already a
09:28
u.s. cat's paw in the region and just
09:31
reduced its credibility to nothing he's
09:34
just carpet-bomb the credibility of the
09:36
OAS and what he's doing I think and it's
09:41
understood to Venezuela is really a more
09:44
sophisticated version of Operation
09:46
Condor which was part you know and
09:49
parcel of the coup and Chile but also
09:50
destroying the left across the continent
09:54
so now we're sort of seeing the left
09:57
come back in in some places you see the
10:01
historical memory of Chile being
10:03
observed through the music of Victor
10:05
Jara who is murdered along with so many
10:09
other supporters of Ind by Pinochet but
10:14
I want to ask you you know because we
10:17
only have a little bit of time left
10:19
alena about Mexico where you have a
10:22
government that's sort of functioning
10:24
regionally as a kind of negotiator
10:27
between the US and so many of these
10:32
other countries that are either you know
10:36
independent still like Venezuela or what
10:39
you're experiencing these tumultuous
10:42
protests there's been I've been hearing
10:46
you know from Mexican friends who are on
10:48
the left that I'm low has been something
10:51
of a disappointment and others you know
10:54
understand that he's in a difficult
10:56
predicament because Mexico is right next
10:58
to the US and I'm also seeing an attack
11:01
building on Amla within Washington to
11:03
paint Mexico as a kind of failed state
11:06
in order to get the u.s. back in you
11:09
were actually pointing to a New York
11:11
Times article on your Twitter account
11:13
which called for a counterinsurgency
11:14
campaign in Mexico because it was a
11:17
failed state so you know what's
11:19
happening in you know in your home
11:22
country how do you see on lo about a
11:25
year into his tenure and what effect is
11:30
the attack in Washington having well
11:33
actually it's it's I think the the role
11:37
of Mexico in the region is gonna be a
11:38
key for for next year's and Andres
11:42
Manuel Lopez Obrador damn low he's not a
11:44
social he he doesn't consider himself as
11:48
a socialist he he is always contrary
11:52
democracy everywhere but he changed I
11:54
loved a lot of the things in the region
11:57
for example were talking about the OAS
11:59
the things here at the Lima group he the
12:02
the position of Mexico is now absolutely
12:05
different actually what we were saying
12:07
the representative of Mexico at the OAS
12:11
said it with the same words he called
12:14
again he said that almagro he asked to a
12:17
Margaret to stop being a spoke spoke man
12:20
of like another cause he she was really
12:26
I mean I I covered the OAS for the last
12:30
two years I never I heard something like
12:33
that so Mexico have been changing a lot
12:37
of things in the region and now with the
12:39
relationship with the US well it's
12:42
really complicated we cannot be the anti
12:44
capitalist government that maybe we
12:48
would
12:49
like to see we have a lot of dependency
12:53
with with the US and we are the
12:56
neighbors of the pile so now I think and
12:59
I'm really worried too because I can see
13:02
that a new a new narrative and strategy
13:07
from the US is beginning as we saw with
13:10
Nicaragua or Venezuela and the problem
13:13
is that we are neighbors
13:14
so now Fox News and the New York Times
13:19
are saying things like we are a failure
13:26
that our state is you know like the same
13:31
they said about Venezuela months ago and
13:33
they are saying exactly the same now of
13:36
this socialist president of Mexico that
13:39
that's what Fox News said and it's
13:42
important to listen to them they are the
13:44
real spoke spoken enough of Trump so I
13:49
see that even when a blow has been
13:53
trying to be in moderate friend with
13:58
Trump's administration he conceded he a
14:02
lot of in terms of the migration policy
14:06
even when we don't say that we are the
14:09
third country the third state country my
14:14
like we are in fact in in those terms so
14:19
even though even with all of that things
14:24
Trump's administration are still pushing
14:27
the idea that now for example days ago
14:31
he said that Mexico's government she'd
14:34
accept the help of the US to fight
14:39
against the narcos to the drug cartels
14:42
to fire them
14:44
and now the Fox News are saying that
14:47
yeah we help Colombia while we could
14:50
couldn't help make successful inclusion
14:55
of Colombia
14:56
so much really the most violent country
14:58
in the region and they say it and they
15:01
say in those terms like we help Colombia
15:04
so we can help anyone so even they say
15:07
like the Mexican population should be
15:10
supporting the Trump's ideas so you know
15:14
this is tragedy
15:15
we've seen that over and over again is
15:18
the same script of the State Department
15:20
to create this idea that it's a national
15:24
threat to the national security it's a
15:26
threat for international security in the
15:29
u.s. so I'm really worried that
15:31
something can happen for next month and
15:33
it wasn't coincidence that I'm not
15:36
tweeted a week ago that it's not
15:40
possible a coup in Mexico like given
15:44
this idea that he's also worried as a
15:47
president didn't start talking about a
15:49
possibility of a coup in Mexico just
15:52
because you have time to treat something
15:54
so maybe he knows that things are
15:58
changing and I think a point of no
16:01
return was these operative against the
16:05
El Chapo's son I don't know if you saw
16:08
that they obtained the military Mexican
16:11
military detained the son of a chopper
16:14
and Emilio wasn't aware about that and I
16:19
in my perception that that kind of
16:23
operatives or it specifically that one
16:26
was created it was a trap of the DEA in
16:35
Mexico so it something else is talking
16:39
at this point and also you know if you
16:41
look at the history the DA's history in
16:44
the region along with Delta Force for
16:47
example the you know operation against
16:50
Pablo Escobar in Colombia it helped turn
16:54
Colombia into the failed state and
16:56
create space for Plan Colombia because
16:59
once Escobar was eliminated there was
17:01
this massive fight for power and the
17:04
u.s. was backing los pepes
17:06
as this kind of forced to kill off his
17:08
men so they basically create
17:11
just this this massive war in midian
17:15
that had previously kind of been under
17:18
the control of one drug lord that's the
17:21
kind of scenario you can see after the
17:23
capture of el chapo taking place in
17:27
Mexico that the US would sort of benefit
17:29
from yeah actually the last time you
17:32
received help from the u.s. to fight the
17:36
drug cartels we had for the last twelve
17:39
years more than 200,000 people
17:42
disappeared and more than 130,000 people
17:46
killed
17:47
that was our war on drugs from 2006 in
17:54
2018 for the last elections and and
17:57
people are still being more there every
18:00
single day in Mexico because of that war
18:02
and mass media didn't say anything for
18:05
more than 12 years where this this world
18:08
started with Felipe Calderon and things
18:12
with AMLO has changed just a little
18:15
because he I mean I understand things
18:20
have to have to change but he cannot do
18:23
anything well he can do a lot but he
18:26
cannot change the situation in Mexico in
18:29
just one year and now we have he has the
18:33
70% of approval he is trying to push a
18:37
lot of initiatives a lot of proposals of
18:40
law he is trying to change the system as
18:44
much as he can I think but it won't be
18:47
enough I'm sure yeah let's talk about
18:50
I'm low in Mexico's foreign policy and
18:54
the kind of regional attempt of
18:56
reintegration because today is November
19:00
7th the 7th of November and in the past
19:03
few days there have been some
19:04
interesting developments that involve
19:07
not only Chile and Mexico but also
19:10
Ecuador and Argentina so you know in
19:13
Argentina there was a recent election
19:16
and the left one power so the the
19:19
oligarch neoliberal Mauricio Macri is
19:23
now
19:24
going to accept he's gonna give power
19:26
over to the left again and the president
19:31
who won at about the Fernandez just
19:33
actually visited Mexico and it was
19:35
actually his his first foreign trip was
19:38
to Mexico and what's interesting is that
19:41
so CNN did a report on this and CNN
19:44
asked they said a CNN CNN espanol asked
19:48
they said is Mexico the new epicenter of
19:51
the left in Latin America and what's
19:55
interesting is while this is also
19:56
happening you also had a trip of Arafah
20:00
Correa who is the former leftist
20:03
president of Ecuador and he he had a
20:06
talk he met with Alberto Fernandez of
20:09
Argentina and Correa also commented on
20:14
the meeting between Hernandez and amlo
20:17
the president the new president leftist
20:19
president of Mexico and he said we're
20:22
going to continue building Latin
20:24
American unity and then also quoted Iowa
20:28
in his in his interview in Mexico he did
20:31
an interview with Millennials which is a
20:33
big media outlet and he said before
20:35
Lopez Obrador in Mexico before amla
20:38
Mexico only looked to the north
20:41
Mexico considered itself part of North
20:43
America and saw itself as more closely
20:46
allied with the US than with the rest of
20:49
Latin America now quadriyyah argues that
20:52
now with um lo mexico is looking back to
20:55
the south again and at least making
20:58
attempts you know you can criticize
21:00
maybe that they're not as successful as
21:02
they could be but is at least making
21:04
attempts to reintegrate with the region
21:07
and no longer just seeing itself as the
21:09
kind of junior partner of the u.s. so
21:12
I'm wondering what you think about that
21:13
and about this kind of his historic
21:16
meetings that the fact that the new
21:19
left-wing President of Argentina his
21:22
first trip was to Mexico well I must say
21:25
that in the last month and a half I've
21:29
seen complete they're different
21:33
a real different foreign policy strategy
21:37
the Mexican foreign policy has changed a
21:40
lot during the last a month and a half
21:42
during this time we saw the the
21:46
president of Cuba ABS canal visited
21:49
congressman Lopez Obrador the statements
21:53
of the representative of Mexico the OAS
21:56
are real different they're against the
22:00
general secretary that we were talking
22:02
about almagro we've seen this visit of
22:06
the elected president of Argentina and
22:09
Argentina Alberto Fernandez the position
22:13
of Mexico in the group of lime even
22:18
something that wasn't mentioned in the
22:22
media was that in the Twitter account of
22:26
an lo he said that in Bolivia in the
22:30
middle of all of this strategy of a coup
22:33
against Evo Morales he said that the
22:36
elections in Bolivia were democratic so
22:40
it's it's amazing and I think it is
22:43
related to his fear of a coup that he
22:48
needs to change as much as possible
22:51
immediately so it's changing and it's
22:54
changing for a good in the region but
22:56
that's why I'm really worried because
23:00
the US won't allow I'm allowed to do
23:03
whatever he wants
23:04
right so yeah definitely it's a change
23:06
and in the middle of these cows and
23:10
people questioning the no liberal modo
23:14
in the region in the whole world in
23:17
Ecuador in Chile he's talking about
23:20
neoliberalism and during these press
23:23
conferences in the morning that he asked
23:25
every single day he was saying that the
23:29
liberal system is failed failed model
23:32
that we can trust in those kind of
23:35
policies and it's something that he I
23:38
don't really I I would never thought
23:41
that he could say something like these
23:43
as I said he's not anti-capitalist he's
23:46
not socialist but he is understanding
23:49
the role of Mexico in the region
23:51
and it is change a lot during the last
23:54
month or two months and it's it's
23:57
amazing yeah I just got up this tweet
23:58
you mentioned this I'm glad you
24:00
mentioned this because I was tweeting
24:01
about it and it got very little
24:02
attention but I agree that this is very
24:04
important this is undeniable pose over
24:06
order the New Mexican president and he
24:09
tweeted I'll translated here I
24:11
congratulated on the phone the new
24:14
president-elect Alberto Fernandez in
24:16
Argentina and also Ava Morales the
24:19
president of Bolivia who won their free
24:21
election the free and democratic
24:23
elections in their countries on the knee
24:26
posted a photo meeting and what's
24:29
interesting is that this is also at a
24:30
time of course when the US and the OAS
24:32
are leading this kind of coup attempt
24:35
against Ava Morales in Bolivia and there
24:39
have been massive protests in support of
24:42
AVO and what's also interesting in
24:44
response to this is if you look on if
24:46
you look at Twitter and you look at like
24:49
the people who really support I'm low
24:51
and what would they call like the the
24:53
red the Imanol red like the network of
24:56
amla supporters there's a popular I'm
24:59
low guy Michael OVA though who's like an
25:03
architect and a big Amla guy he always
25:04
you know people say I'm lovers they
25:07
always have this thing like this is and
25:08
if you look at their rhetoric it's
25:10
really interesting he's saying my
25:12
absolute support to my president goodbye
25:16
to neoliberalism another country in
25:19
Latin America is turning to the left
25:22
goodbye to the right wing that sells its
25:25
homeland welcomed the left so if you
25:29
even if you look at his supporters
25:30
online there's definitely this rhetoric
25:32
and of course when I'm low you know his
25:34
domestic policy it's more complicated to
25:36
talk about of course the Mexican
25:39
government is the federal government is
25:41
a very weak state compared to other
25:43
states in the region for a variety of
25:45
historical regions reasons but I think
25:47
this actually he kind of reminds me in
25:49
some ways of Lula da Silva and Brazil
25:51
where I'm Lula was more explicitly kind
25:54
of socialist oriented but in the sense
25:57
that Lula was not his economic policy
26:00
was not very left-wing
26:02
he did fight poverty but he wasn't like
26:05
no threatening to take away the wealth
26:08
of rich people but he was explicitly
26:10
anti neoliberal in his rhetoric and he
26:13
was focused on regional integration so
26:15
I'm wondering maybe if you think that
26:17
you know I'm low at his inauguration he
26:19
famously declared that the night of
26:21
neoliberalism has ended and there's a
26:24
new dawn in Mexico so I'm wondering
26:25
maybe if you think he's definitely not
26:28
someone like Chavez who's talking about
26:30
socialism in the 21st century but do you
26:32
think that that I'm low can be someone
26:34
more like Lula who is going to be
26:36
focused on regional integration and and
26:39
you know not a socialist model but a
26:42
more social democratic model of course
26:44
if if he's not coud out although another
26:48
point to make really quickly is that it
26:49
was actually the 2002 coup against
26:52
Chavez that turned him to the left and
26:54
made him a socialist so something else
26:56
to think about is if the US and revering
26:59
forces do try a coup against Lopez
27:02
Obrador it could be possible that that
27:04
could act if he survives the coup and he
27:06
has a lot of popular support that could
27:07
actually move him even further left yeah
27:10
actually I don't think the same but he's
27:12
more kind of a Lula than a Chavez but
27:15
actually also Chavez wasn't socialist
27:18
before 2002 it was the cool that made
27:21
Chavez a real socialist talking about ok
27:26
expectations about the the Morrisey
27:30
about you know Chavez changed a lot
27:33
after the coup so even embarrassment and
27:36
I think he has been changing a lot his
27:38
mind during the last year he's not the
27:40
same person with to the power last
27:42
December the 1st 2018 he has changed a
27:45
lot his mind and his policies or maybe
27:48
it was just a strategy taking the power
27:51
and then it started doing something like
27:53
this I'm really glad that something like
27:55
this is going on in Mexico and also
27:58
there is something I forgot to say and
28:00
it's the role of Mexico now with what's
28:03
going on in in Ecuador because and now
28:07
the mainly figures or mainly figures of
28:10
the charisma or of the government of
28:13
Rafael Correa in Ecuador now for example
28:16
the former Chancellor
28:18
Cuttino is exiled in Mexico also the one
28:22
who was the president of the National
28:24
Assembly Gabriela Guevara Neda both of
28:27
them could have run for presidency
28:29
instead of Lenin Moreno but according to
28:32
the polls the best option at that moment
28:35
at that point was Lena Moreno and
28:37
Gabriela Riva Dunedin now is inside the
28:40
embassy of Mexico asking for asylum with
28:44
another four congressmen in inside a
28:47
Mexican Embassy so Mexico is absolutely
28:50
defying the u.s. in putting foreign
28:53
policy especially in the terms of us
28:56
what I said Bolivia and Ecuador is
28:59
definitely for example now Rafael Correa
29:01
to say this it is in Mexico giving
29:04
speeches and having meetings with
29:07
Alberto Fernandez the president elect
29:10
the President of Argentina so definitely
29:13
in those terms accepted the visit of the
29:16
president of Cuba and talking about
29:19
democracy in Bolivia and accepting the
29:22
main leaders of charisma in Mexico as
29:25
excited it's it's just he's not talking
29:29
about and they throw in the capitalism
29:32
but he is doing these kind of things
29:35
that represent a clear that he is really
29:39
defying the u.s. in these terms all
29:43
right well we're gonna have to enter
29:44
conversation there thank you so much for
29:46
joining us we were speaking with Alina
29:48
Duarte who is an independent journalist
29:51
and is currently in she lay she used to
29:54
work with della sword also Alina is
29:57
crowdfunding to have people help support
30:00
her important on-the-ground
30:02
investigative journalism so we're gonna
30:04
put a link below this episode on YouTube
30:08
and also on different websites for
30:10
podcasts so go to the description and
30:12
you can find the link to her GoFundMe to
30:16
help support
30:16
Elena's on-the-ground reporting thanks
30:19
so much for joining us Lina and support
30:21
us support us at patreon.com slash
30:26
moderate raffia support all thank you
30:28
for having me
30:29
thanks a lot Alina
30:31
thank you okay
30:34
[Music]
30:55
posted by piety piet at 9:09 PM
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